Did the events you relate in this book really happen? Did two reincarnated saints really appear to you in person from out of nowhere and have these discussions with you?
GARY: Yes, absolutely. My experience was that they were just as real as anybody else. They taught me many aspects of the truth over a period of nine years and 17 discussions, all of which eventually led me to the experience of what I can only describe as the most healing truth I’ve ever known. There were spiritual reasons to explain their appearances that they gave me during their later visits, because they knew I’d be in a better position to understand it by then. Metaphysical technicalities notwithstanding, they seemed very human when they appeared.

Are there tapes or photographs that prove the existence of your visitors? Since the first visit was a total surprise, how did you make a record of that conversation?
GARY: There were never any pictures of my visitors. I asked them during their second visit if I could take their pictures and record their voices — even though I was already recording them secretly by then, a fact they were aware of and that we discussed later. They said pictures and tapes were pointless because any actors could have played them or their voices, so such “proof” would only be the source of more controversy. They also stressed that their visits were important for what they had to say, not whether their existence could be proved. In fact, part of their teaching was to convey the false nature of all bodies — theirs, mine or anyone else’s. I used the tapes for my own purposes of writing the book and then checking its accuracy, then threw them away. This was done with Arten and Pursah’s guidance — as were all decisions about the book — which brings up the answer to the second part of the question.

Their first visit was a total surprise (you have no idea!) but also one of the shorter ones. I wrote down notes within a couple of days after that meeting, and I have an excellent memory. That helped a lot. I refer in my Author’s Note to “dialogue recalled after the fact”; the first chapter is an example of that. Also, Arten and Pursah talked with me later about how to present the first visit. Not all of their help and instructions are “on the record” in the book. By the way, they also told me in private to use a certain quotation from A Course in Miracles at the very beginning of the book that is not only a metaphysical teaching, but which they said was a prophecy of their appearances.

You know, some people will think you’re crazy, and others will think you made this whole thing up no matter what you say. You’ve already been called everything from “someone whose words ring true” to a con man. What do you say to the skeptics?
GARY: Not too much, because my teachers told me that people will think what they want to think. First of all, I can’t prove that I’m not crazy, other than to show evidence that I’ve never been treated for any type of mental illness, never been institutionalized and never been placed on any kind of medication. As for making the whole thing up — if anyone who reads the whole book actually thinks I could write it by myself without inspiration from these masters, then that would be an even bigger compliment to me than the fact that the masters appeared to me. Humility aside for a minute, I’ve seen a lot of spiritual books, but I’ve never seen one like this, with this much information and useful insights. People can save an incredible amount of time by using the ideas in this book. And I know from experience that students of A Course in Miracles will be able to gain a new understanding of the Course after reading the conversations I experienced; the book throws a new light on the teaching. If somebody thinks I could be responsible for all that on my own, they’re giving me way too much credit.

Still, I understand that it will be impossible for some people to accept that my teachers really appeared to me. But even they said that it doesn’t matter whether people believe it or not. I repeat that in the book’s introduction, and so does my publisher in his foreword. None of us are telling readers that they have to believe in ascended masters! You know, throughout history people have found great wisdom in the Bible, but I don’t think anyone alive today can vouch for all its sources — or any of them, for that matter. The same is true of many spiritual teachings. Their validity is proved by their wisdom and usefulness, not by finding the proof of who came up with the teachings. All I ask is that people read my book and see if it helps them, regardless of whether they believe that my teachers appeared.

One of your teachers claims to be the author of The Gospel of Thomas, and talks about it in some detail. What’s that all about?
GARY: My teachers explained that at the time of the historical Jesus, Pursah (who appeared to me as a female) was Saint Thomas and Arten (who appeared to me as a male) was Saint Thaddaeus, two of the original disciples. Those incarnations were not their final ones. They both went on to live, as they said at one point, more than twenty other lifetimes, knowing each other in many of them. So when she was Thomas, Pursah was the author of the original version of The Gospel of Thomas, and she was gracious enough to speak about twenty of the sayings from that Gospel and give me an overview of what they meant. She also shared some personal details of their experiences with Jesus. They both explained that they went on to achieve enlightenment in a later lifetime, and the bodies they were appearing in to me were representative of that final lifetime. They also said most ascended masters use their final bodily images for teaching purposes. By the way, the concept of sainthood was made up by the church and doesn’t have anything to do with authentic enlightenment.

Your book has a smart-ass style to it and a lot of kidding around goes on between you and your teachers. What’s the reason for that? Aren’t you afraid of offending people?
GARY: Nah. Hell, you can’t walk down the street minding your own business without offending somebody. People don’t realize that they’re so easily offended because their mind judges almost automatically. My visitors wanted to teach me to do the opposite. As for their style and humor, I can see now that there were good reasons for it. Pursah, the attractive female teacher who appeared to me (and who I sometimes found myself wishing was human), said a couple of things about that. She told me their style was designed to get me to pay attention. I think it was also designed to get our present-day society to pay attention as well. I know from personal experience that it worked better than a lot of other learning experiences I’ve been through.

Another thing she said about humor was, “If you take the world too seriously, it will take you.” And Arten put the reason for their irreverence this way: “We are reverent only to God and spirit, and perhaps that will help you cut to the chase.”

If others find their style useful like I did, then fine. It might even facilitate learning in some people without them necessarily liking it. Even if some people hate it, that’s just the way it is. I don’t expect one hundred percent total agreement and applause from readers, that’s for sure. The best way to get people to agree with you is simple: don’t say anything that people don’t want to hear. But this book has a lot to say and does it with a provocative style.

What would you say is the main difference between the traditional views of God and your teachers’ take on God in this book?
GARY: Traditional systems like Judaism, Christianity and the Muslim religion, which are all based upon the same God, the sacrificial God of Abraham, have all said that God is love. Unfortunately, they have all gone on to present us, both in scripture and by their followers’ behavior, with a God who is often anything but love. While the thinking of most of the world is based on a God of judgment and vengeance, the God of my teachers, namely the God of A Course in Miracles, really is love. Like with the historical Jesus, who is the Voice of the Course, only unconditional love and forgiveness would be a viable way of thinking for the teachers who appeared to me. Also, the only valid description of God would be that He is perfect Love, a fact that can never be compromised on in any way.

There have been several best-selling books that teach principles from A Course in Miracles, as your book does. What’s new or different in this one?
GARY: I don’t think The Disappearance of the Universe negates the books of the past but follows naturally from them. After all, who would be reading books about the Course if it weren’t for Jerry Jampolsky and Marianne Williamson? At the same time, I think people are ready for a next step. There’s never been a very popular book that spelled out the deeper teachings of the Course and presented the public with the magnitude of it. I’m not saying my book or any one book can capture the entire scope of the Course. But maybe Arten and Pursah knew that after September 11, 2001, the world would be a little different and people would be ready to look more deeply at some things that maybe they didn’t want to look at before. At the same time, my teachers managed to present teachings of great substance in a way that anyone can understand and apply, and they did it in a way that was often entertaining. That’s no small trick. I know it was effective because I’m no genius. I never even went to college, but I understood them and I was entertained. So I think they made a unique contribution.

Part of that contribution was to point out very clearly that doing spiritual exercises on your own, whether it’s positive thinking or affirmations or meditation or simply being “in the now” — a currently popular idea that was already as old as the hills back when Ram Dass used it — cannot release that which is locked in the deep canyons of your unconscious mind. People will keep dreaming that they’re reincarnating until the unconscious guilt in their minds has been completely healed by the Holy Spirit, and that’s something that nobody can do on their own. That’s why the Course is unique; it does something for people that nothing else can. Yet they still have to learn how to do their part so they can work effectively with the Holy Spirit. By thinking the same way as the Holy Spirit, they’ll ultimately return to being the same as the Holy Spirit. That’s what we already are in reality, but the totally awesome experience of it is not usually in people’s awareness. By constantly choosing with the Holy Spirit and thus undoing the ego, eventually spirit will be all that’s left. The Course’s method of true forgiveness, as opposed to the world’s old-fashioned brand of forgiveness, is what inevitably leads to this.

What do your teachers have to say about typical New Age subjects like reincarnation and enlightenment?
GARY: I think the fundamental difference between their concept of enlightenment, as well as their notion of breaking the cycle of birth in death, is that the truth is something that doesn’t exist within the universe, which is really just a dream. Anything that can be perceived or even measured is just part of the dream, and the truth is completely outside of that dream and must be awakened to. But not only is the truth outside of the universe, it’s also outside of the mind that made the universe. Once you realize that, then the only truth that remains is God. Until A Course in Miracles, concepts of enlightenment, which were non-Christian in terminology, involved being one with the universe and/or the maker of the universe, which was seen as the higher Self. But with the Course, the truth is seen to be beyond even that, and has nothing to do with anything other than perfect oneness, which is God. This God would not have made the universe unless He was out of His mind like we are. So to put it in general terms, when all unconscious guilt in the mind is healed through the Course’s dynamic of forgiveness and joining with the Holy Spirit, then the cycle of birth and death is broken and you achieve enlightenment. But that enlightenment involves completely awakening from the dream, rather than merely being more awake in the dream.

At one point you describe your visitors as actually “transporting” you along with them to a city thirty miles away, instantaneously. You’re putting us on, right?
GARY: Nope. One instant I was sitting with them in my living room near Poland Spring, and the very next instant I was sitting on some cement steps with them in front of a building in Portland, Maine. Then we got up and walked around and talked for a while. I don’t want to give too many details, because I don’t want to spoil the book for people. The book has a lot of surprises in it, a couple of which really blew me away. That episode of mind-transport was one of them.

People seem to love arguing about metaphysics, and your book is probably going to start a whole new round of controversy. Are you excited about stirring up a lot of heated discussion?
GARY: In a word, no. Metaphysics are taught by the teachers in my book only to prepare me — and by extension, the reader — to learn how to really forgive. My teachers say in the book, “Forgiveness is where the rubber meets the road. Without forgiveness, metaphysics are useless.” So if I may paraphrase the Course, when people dwell on arguing about metaphysics they’re just using it as a defense against truth in the form of a delaying maneuver. My book is about forgiveness, and Arten and Pursah, my two ascended master friends, stressed it again and again.

Of course, people will get what they want out of my book. If they want controversy, they’ll find it, but that will simply prolong their minds remaining split and in conflict, keeping them stuck in the ego’s insane world. They should ask themselves, “Is that really what I want?” Because I can tell them from experience that it’s nothing compared to what’s available.